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tv   State of the Union With Jake Tapper  CNN  November 29, 2015 9:00am-10:01am PST

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let's get to washington. "state of the union" starts right now. >> new details on the planned parenthood shooting that left three people dead. >> he was in front of me and aiming at me and started shooting. i was looking at his face. >> how did the gunman choose his target?
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the political fallout as the president pleads enough is enough. plus, ben carson goes to the front lines. the doctor tries to sharpen his foreign policy chops with an overseas trip. will it work? he joins us from jordan. and trump under fire, his comments about muslims in america send fact checkers into a frenzy. >> i watched when the world trade centers came tumbling down where thousands and thousands of people were cheering thousands of people were cheering -- >> then he mocks the physically disabled reporter who disputed his claim. >> oh, i don't know what i said. i don't remember. i don't remember. >> will any of it damage his front-runner status? plus the top political minds will be here with insights from the campaign trail. >> i'm brianna keilar filling in
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for jake tapper. b baby parts, that was the phrase used, robert lewis dear told police he had anti-abortion and anti-government views. his most recent address was this trailer in the community of colorado where his neighbors say people go to be left alone. >> talking to us and everything and gave us some anti-obama flyers little pamphlets and i didn't even really read them. >> before moving to colorado he lived here in this remote cabin in north carolina and his police records in the carolinas include complaints about animal abuse, as well as an accusation that he was a peeping tom. he will appear in court on monday to face charges. i spoke about this attack with republican candidate dr. ben carson who joined us from amman,
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jordan. >> planned parenthood is calling this an act of domestic terrorism. do you agree with that assessment? >> it certainly -- it certainly is an act of extreme hatred and violence. you know, the family research council according to some government agencies is a terrorist group. you know, so let's get away from the rhetoric and talk about the real problem. the real problem is that we have become coarse and hateful to each other and allowed the purveyors of division to put us in separate corners and have us throw hand grenades at each other rather than being able to sit down at the table and talk about our differences in, a pluralistic society, everyone is not going to agree. but the way that we can create harmony is to be able to actually sit down, discuss the
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rationale for our approaches and work together at finding a solution. that's what we really should be thinking about. >> dr. carson, you traveled to jordan this weekend to visit syrian refugees. how has this visit shaped your thinking? >> well, it was wonderful to have an opportunity to actually visit some of the camps and talk to the people themselves. first of all, very impressed with the humanitarian spirit of the jordanians who have been that way for decades but their outreach to the syrians is truly touching. having an opportunity to talk to many of the syrian refugees themselves and ask them questions, what is your supreme desire and to see how much they want to be resettled in their own country. but also, asking them what can other nations like the united states of america do that would be helpful to you? the answer that really was
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overwhelming is that they can support the efforts that are already in place by the jordanians and others in terms of these refugee camps. they don't have enough money. and you know, you look at last year, there was a $3 billion shortfall. well, that's the same amount of money that we spent last month on halloween candy. so it is possible to shore this up, but we really need to be looking at the things that actually solve the problem. bringing 10,000 syrian refugees to america or 25,000 doesn't even begin to solve the problem. there's already 1.4 million syrian refugees in jordan and they can handle even more than that to be honest with you -- >> can i ask you dr., carson -- pardon me to interrupt. i know that you were speaking to these refugees. did you ask them would they rather remain in this refugee camp than be resettled in
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america? is that their desire as you understand it? >> their desire, true desire is to be resettled in syria. but you know, they are satisfied to be in the refugee camps if the refugee camps are adequately funded. recognize that in these camps, they have schools. they have recreational facilities that are really quite nice. and they are putting in all kinds of things that make life more tolerable. would it be better integrate them into society? yes, i talked to some people about that. but you have to make progress as you go. >> i want to ask you about something that we're hearing coming out of tennessee, one of the top republican lawmakers there has actually suggested using the national guard to round up the refugees who are already settled in the u.s. and
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send them back and i wonder if given your concerns about the screening process of refugees if you would favor such a move? >> i think that may be a little extreme to be honest with you. but rather than have to face situations like that, let's go ahead and support the efforts that already exist that really will take care of millions of people. and why would we continue to increase the complexity of the situation in this country without solving the problem by bringing people over here who are not adequately screened? that doesn't make a lot of sense. >> we're seeing in the latest quinn pea yak university poll in iowa that you slipped 10 percentage points over the last months, that's what various q polls show. you tell the "new york times" because you think they don't see you as the right person to be president in a time of terrorism. do you think this short trip is
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enough to change the minds of iowans and americans and show that you have a grasp of the challenges that isis poess to american security? >> the trip is about fact finding, about getting an opportunity to see firsthand without having things reinterpreted over something that is really incredibly important. and it's not about me. it's about you know, these individuals and what's happening to them. and it's also about the united states of america and the people of our country. and the kind of leadership that they deserve. >> do you feel the trip has given you -- i guess if you could talk about the new facts you found and also if you feel that the trip has given you a better grasp of the challenges that isis poses? >> yes. yes, i think it really has. it's very similar to the trip i
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took this summer down to the border of mexico. and of course, we'd all heard about the difficulties there but to be able to actually talk to the ranchers who are being terrorized, to be able to talk to the sheriffs and deputies who put their lives on the line to have ice tell them you have to release these people -- to see the stashes of drugs and recognize just a small part of what's being brought through -- >> in the case of this trip -- >> those are the kinds of things that give you perspective. >> what informed you in this trip about the challenges that isis poses to american security? >> the thing that i really learned here in listening to the refugees themselves is their intense desire to return to their own country and be repatriated. there's so many people who think that the ideal for everybody is to come to america and be settled here. but that is not the ideal for
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everybody. we need to look at mechanisms that already exit. why do you want to recreate the will when you have something that's working? let's maximize that then think about whether we recreate other wills. >> dr. ben carson, thanks for joining us from jordan. we appreciate it. >> a pleasure. >> coming up, new details on the planted parenthood shooting. police say the killer had propane tanks near his car. was he planning an even deadlier attack?
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welcome back, i'm brianna keilar, the shooter who held planted parenthood for hostage killed three people. the third was officer garrett swasey leaves behind a wife and two children. joining me to talk about the shooting is republican presidential candidate and former arkansas governor, mike
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huckabee. governor, thanks so much for joining us, we certainly appreciate it. >> well, delighted to be here, brianna. >> i want to begin with this shootout that took place on friday at this planned parenthood clinic in colorado springs. you heard that law enforcement is now telling cnn the shooter has anti-abortion, anti-government views and he referenced baby parts following the attacks. planned parenthood of the rocky mountains put out this following staple, we share the concerns of many americans that extremists are creating a poisonous environment that feeds domestic terrorism in this country. what do you make of this argument, governor? >> well, we don't know fully what the facts are. they are still being determined. we don't even know some of the victims' names yet. regardless of why he did it, what he did is domestic terrorism and what he did is absolutely abomb inable, especially to those of us in the pro-life movement. there's nothing about any of us
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that would condone or look the other way at something like this. we're not going to have the language like from john kerry, talking about legitimatizing terrorist actions. it was mass murder. it was absolutely unfathomable. there's no excuse for killing other people, whether it's happening inside the planned parenthood headquarters or clinics where millions of babies die or people attacking planned parenthood. we ought to value life. every life has worth and value. this is an incredible tragedy. i don't know of anybody who will say anything other than just outright condemnation for this horrible despicable act of murder. >> planned parenthood seems to be -- well, it is, blaming the rhetoric that popped up following the videos that came out that were taped various videos of planned parenthood.
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they say the rhetoric created this environment where this happened. do you agree with that? >> brianna, i don't know of any pro-life leader, any, if you can tell me one, please correct me, but i don't know of anybody who is suggesting violence towards planned parenthood personnel or some act of violence towards their clinics. i've not heard that, not from one single pro-life person. i've heard universal condemnation, from the centers for medical progress that put out the videos or whether it's from pro-life advocates. i know of nobody who has ever suggested that planned parenthood be the target of some type of violent attacks. i think that's a little bit disingenuous to blame people who have a strong philosophical disagreement with the dismembering of human babies and with the selling of body parts, to say that we would like to retaliate by sending some madman
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into a clinic to kill people. god knows that's not what anybody who want. and this person apparently from everything we know, very unstable person, and just a terrible tragedy, especially for that police officer and his family. >> this shooting has certainly revifd the debate over abortion. you support banning abortion but declaring that a fetus is a person who has rights under the constitution. can you explain under your plan what the criminal penalty would be for a woman if she did get an abortion? >> well, there wouldn't be a criminal penalty against a woman. i've often said there are two victims with every abortion, one is the unborn child who loses its life and the other is often that woman who is talked into the abortion, pressured into it and maybe feels she has no other option, there's no reason to criminalize her. i personally think that that would be a useless and frankly a
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harsh and unnecessary kind of attack on a woman who needs love and support and assistance, not criminalization. >> i do want to turn now to the fight against isis. i want to ask you about something that you actually tweeted last week. i said after today's attack in mali, the obama approved domestic anti-terror plan give up your guns and memorize a koran verse. memorize a koran verse? >> after the attack in mali there were numerous reports that the gunmen were going around and saying, can you quote a verse for the koran. if they said yes, they were allowed to go free. if they couldn't, they were shot. the point was is that while the president has said we need to disarm law abiding people, it was just a reminder that we are at war with radical islam. whether we want to admit that or not, it's not that we are at war with all islam but those who
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believe the purpose they have on earth is to declare a worldwide caliphate to kill all believers, which would be everyone who don't agree to their harsh, intense anti-woman, anti-human being approach to life and who want to take us back to the seventh century. that was the point of the tweet. >> do you mean to lump the president and the terrorist in m mali togt? >> heavens no. i don't think anybody suggested that and i didn't. i'm pointing out the irony. this president has shown considerable more intense of anger towards republicans than isis. i remember the press conferences, in manila and turkey prior to that, where you could see the advicible visceral anger this president had as he spoke about republican and so frustrated that there was not just a universal acceptance of
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his point of view of relocation of refugees calling people who disagreed with him as un-american. it was harsh. i just wanted him to show the same kind of anger directed toward the isis terrorists and frankly all of the radical islamists that we saw from the french president hollande after paris attacks where he clearly said, let's close our borders and get a handle on this and let's go after these guys with everything we have and be unrelenting in destroying them. that's what we all need to do. the family of civilized nations need to get together and we need to destroy this threat once and for all. >> you have called for a sanctioning countries that don't join the co-isalition against i. are you proposing a coalition of the unwilling? >> if you mean coalition of the unwilling, those who refuse to lift a finger to stop this aggressi aggression, they should be isolated.
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yes, we should put sanctions on them. there's no excuse, especially for middle eastern nations and muslim middle eastern nations to simply sit back and do nothing and let america, the united kingdom, france, nato countries to let the rest of the world attack this malignant cancer called islamic jihadism and sit back and protect their own special and well funded kingd kingdoms. there has to be a concerted effort. this is a world battle. we're fighting not so much for land, real estate and the color of our flag, brianna, we're really fighting for whether or not we're going to be a civilized world or we're going to be savages. what is represented by islamic jihadism is not nothing less than unsiflized behavior. when you cut people's head off because they don't agree with your faith and put them in a cage and set them afire in a cage, that's not civilized
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behavior, that's savagery. >> governor huckabee, thanks for being with us. we certainly appreciate your time this sunday morning. >> thank you, brianna. >> coming up, governor orders police to patrol planned parenthood clinics. are other locations being threatened? that's next. every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet?
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welcome back. new york state police will be patrolling planned parenthood clinics on monday. governor cuomo called for additional security measures in the wake of the shooting in colorado springs. joining me now is colorado governor john hickenlooper, we're thinking of your state in the aftermath of this terrible holiday weekend. we know at this point that a police officer was murdered during this attack. there's two other people killed
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as well. they haven't been identified. do you know if either of them were patients or staff of the clinic? >> we can't talk about that quite yet. they haven't released that information publicly. certainly the police officer garrett swasey was a wonderful person, two kids, i'm sure you've seen the news clips on him, wonderful skater and human being. this world is the worse for his loss. that in itself is unfathomable. >> six years on the force, he was responding immediately as he could to the shooting there. we did hear from the attorney general calling this an attack on women. i know that you can't and certainly we respect that at this point that you can't identify the other two victims, but were they women? >> again, i believe one was a woman and one was a man. but i don't think -- i think
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that misses the point to get into whether the perpetrator -- and to be honest, i don't like saying the guy's name, i don't like making these mass killers into celebrities of some sort, some twisted way. i don't -- whether he was successful or not is beyond the point. it's that he was trying to do this is, i don't know, it's a very, very hard reality to understand and get our arms around it. and in colorado we passed universal background checks but at the same time in colorado springs one of the more conservative parts of the state we probably have more people that have licenses for concealed weapons and more guns around. that didn't help. i think as a state but as a country we've got a lot more thinking about this, how to make sure we keep guns out of the hands of people that are unstable. >> you're saying those efforts that you helped spearhead obviously didn't prevent this as
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you're saying. the president when he responded to this attack, it was with a call for gun control. and first of all, can you tell us anything about the weapons that were used here? all we know at this point is there was a long gun and we really don't know much else. >> yeah, i think again, the mayor of colorado springs, a former u.s. attorney, former district attorney and attorney general of the state. i'll let him reveal the evidence. >> i guess my question is, is there an argument to be made, obviously you pushed through legislation in the wake of other shootings in your state, but is there an argument to be made as the president is making that there is a role for increasing gun control in rea action to this specific shooting? >> i think -- i mean, we're still -- colorado springs and i think the whole country is still grieving on this so you know,
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detailed plans probably aren't appropriate, but we have to come back and look at all aspects of why these shootings have continued to occur in oregon or south carolina and colorado. the frequency is unacceptable. and i don't -- i'm not willing to say we'll have to sit back and accept this as a cost of freedom. i think we have to really look at how do we address how do we make sure that people have, who are unstable with violent histories, if somehow a level of domestic violence made it much more difficult to get a weapon, maybe we would not only keep our community safer but cut down on domestic violence. i'm throwing that out as one of many things we've got to think about of how to try and keep guns out of the hands of people that are violent and unstable. >> governor, we've reported that there were propane tanks near the suspect's car that he
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intended to explode. that's something that could have caused tremendous damage. do you think the carnage could have been even worse here? >> well, i think the first responders and i visited three police officers in the hospital yesterday. their efforts were remarkable. the level of courage and bravery they exhibited, when they got the call they went right in to action. so without question it could have been worse on a lot of levels. >> i do want to ask a final question. before we exactly new the thing or anything about the motivation here, we now know that the shooter referenced baby parts when he was arrested. planned parenthood is calling this domestic terrorism. do you agree with that assessment? >> certainly it's a form of terrorism and maybe in some way it's a function and rhetoric we see on all -- so many issues now
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that are bloggers and where they really focus on trying to get people to that point of boiling over. justin tense anger. maybe it's time to look at how do we tone down that rhetoric. no one will try to reduce free speech in that country but that rhetoric -- if people are in some way emotionally unstable or psych logically unbalanced, that intensity of rhetoric sometimes seems to pull a trigger in their brain that they lose contact with what reality is. >> are you calling just to sort of see what you're saying here more clearly, are you calling for changes in blogging and in video games? >> no, i'm not in no way trying to limit free speech. i think that the the united
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states of america ought to begin a discussion. how do you begin to tone back the inflammatory rhetoric that in some ways might be good for i don't know, selling products in advertisements or whatever, but in some way it is inflaming people to the point where they can't stand it and go out and they lose connection with reality in some way and commit these acts of unthinkable violence. i'm not saying we restrict people's freedom of speech. nowhere, nowhere near that. i think we should have a discussion of at least urging caution when we discuss some of these issues so that we don't get people to a point of going out and committing senseless violence. >> governor hickenlooper, thank you so much. we want you to know our thoughts and prayers are with your state and people of colorado springs. >> thank you very much. appreciate that. >> enough is enough. that is what president obama said following friday's shooting
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welcome back, i'm brianna keilar in for jake tapper. planned parenthood called the attack an act of domestic terror. the attorney general called it a crime against women and the president used it to again call for gun control. joining me to talk about the political fallout of the shooting we have shawn spicer, the chief strategist of the republican national committee and cnn political commentators donna brazil and bakari sellers. i want to talk about the shooting in planned parenthood in colorado springs. hillary clinton said today and every day we stand with planned parenthood. this is her recent tweet about it.
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i do wonder though, when you look at the debate, even just this morning talking to republicans, i've certainly noticed a change in the tone. do you think this changes the tenor of the debate over abortion right now? >> i think it's a terrible idea to blame debate for what is a horrific act of violence. if you're going to do that, you have to say that leftist rhetoric was to blame when floyd went into the research center and shot up that office? that's just a wasteful exercise. to hear your former guest john hickenlooper suggest that we need to somehow change our tone or police our rhetoric because of the act of what i am assuming is going to be a madman is a distraction and waste -- >> planned parenthood said there's been an alarming increase in hateful rhetoric and smear campaigns against abortion providers and patients over last few months.
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what they are saying, this is creating a toxic poisonous environment. women have the right to have an abortion and the full range of reproductive health services. >> in your view, is that part of the reason why this happened, plan parenthood is drawing that conclusion. >> i have their statement. they didn't draw that conclusion. there was one little sentence, one little snippet, we don't know the motivation of this mad man, this murderer. but we do know that there was was an atmosphere not just in colorado springs but across the country where women have the opportunity to go to clinics and men too because planned parenthood is open to everyone. there's no reason to create it. >> other than impuning the opinions -- >> i'm not impuning the opinions of anyone. >> the rhetoric in this country has gotten out of hand and that's what people are talking about. whether or not we're in debates
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talking about operation wet back or anything else, the way we communicate with people on the right and left has gotten completely out of hand. i don't want to just let this guy off and say he was deranged and loner. i want to actually have a conversation about guns in this country. i want to have a conversation about mass shootings. somebody who is going to do this anyway, it takes away from discussions we need to have. >> about mental health as well. >> this is a mental health issue. one big takeaway that gets lost in the discussion, we've had a lot of discussion about law enforcement over the last month. and correctly so in terms of the use of force. what we saw this week was officer garrett swasey running to an incident, a reminder that gets lost of what law enenforcement does every day. >> and it is tremendous and not to take away from that at all, sean. >> you say it's mental health and the mental health overhaul bill is lingishing in a republican house committee.
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if such a priority, why is nothing being done? >> i think it should. you heard the folks and maybe this shooting is the i mpetus fr that moving forward. one thing we can all agree on, this guy is nuts and he was crazy and mentally stable. what we don't know about the particulars of this incident, there's no way anybody sane could commit such heinous act and that's the number one thing that we have to concentrate on, because governor hicken looper himself talked about auflt lengths colorado has gone to, universal background checks and adding another layer to stop a crazy person is actually crazy itself. >> i do want to talk about guns. this is where he went. it almost has become a bit of a reflex when you have a shooting, he said this is not normal. we have to do something about the easy accessibility of weapons of war on our streets enough is enough. but does anything change? >> that's why i can't let sean get away as casting it as mental
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health. the simple fact, if we were going to do something about guns, we would have done it after sandy hook and killed 20 kids and six adults and we didn't. we keep having these discussions whether or not it's charleston or oregon or colorado and seems as if we're having trouble getting our friends on the right to want to do something substantive about guns in our community. >> there are a lot of people with mental disabilities and we stigma ties people -- >> and our language is powerful. >> we have to be very careful about doing that as well. last night i went on the website, there were five people murdered in this country, 14 injured due to gun violence. we have to figure out how to strengthen the background system and make sure we do everything right, everything right because we have an issue in this country and we have to talk about it. >> governor hickenlooper detailed all of the lengths they've gone to. >> it's a fact, he would not
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have gotten the weapon to go in a church and murder people but for a loophole in our gun law. >> no, people forget -- >> we haven't had federal gun legislation we've had local and state gun legislation in places like colorado and new york that in many cases had to be repealed and drawn back because they have found to be unenforceable and inefficient. there's a sensible conversation to be had. when you're a democratic candidate calling the nra and law abiding gun owners enemies, you can't have a conversation that's productive. >> we have a lot more to talk about ahead, with the important trip that ben carson has made overseas after critics call out his lack of experience on foreign policy. is this visit going to beef up international affairs? we'll see next. the pursuit of healthier.
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you might not care if donald trul p says it's okay to rough up black protesters because you're not but think about this, if he keeps going and actually becomes president, he might just get around to you. >> that is a new web video from the john kasich campaign targeting donald trump. we want to bring in our panel to talk about this, donna brazil, bakari sellers, sean spicer. sean, if republicans, for
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instance, kasich in this instance, if republicans are successful in this line of attack, are you worried donald trump will turn around -- he's hinted a third party run isn't out of the realm of question. are you worried about that? i think mr. clear made it clear he understands the importance of staying a republican. he signed the pledge and understands any break in the republicans will help hillary clinton get elected and that's something he won't stand for. getting to the video, no surprise we at the rnc really invoke reagan's 11th command. that our candidate should be focused on expressing their vision why they want to be president of the united states and focusing attacks on hillary clinton the presumptive nominee. >> the only thing that keeps the republicans together. xenophobia is really popular right now and as long as he gets the kind of support he's getting by raising his voice and demonizing people, he's going continue to lead. >> a lot of republicans have come out against what donald
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trump has said and it's irresponsible to paint the entire party of xenophobic. look, i think attempts to paint donald trump as a nazi or fascist, gives him too much credit. to assume he's got some sort of guiding principle leading him through any of this is giving him way too much credit. he is purely acting on reflex and responding to the crowds and we just are kind are along for the ride. >> this video was good. i thought that kasich, people are talking about him across the country. his name hasn't been one on the rise lately. but donald trump does use bigoted language that is xenophobic to say the least. he's offended everyone except rich white men, i think. when you have that type of dialogue, i'm glad somebody finally punched him back in the mouth. >> are you worried, sean -- >> rich white men too.
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>> i think he actually has. donna, you hear what donna is saying, you hear what hillary clinton is saying, painting all republicans with this donald trump brush. don't you worry about -- >> when you look at every battleground poll, every one of our candidates beats her head to head, not just nationwide but key battleground states. if i were a democrat, what i would be concerned about, that they have put all of the eggs in one basket and that basket is broken. hillary clintons unfavors are so off the charity it's unbelievable. she flip flops on every issue. they have a selt of rules they follow and the fact of the matter -- >> the republican brand is unfavorable. >> look at the head to head. >> right now hillary clinton loses -- >> look -- >> i think sean can't say with a straight face that donald trump -- >> donald trump will beat hillary clinton, every one of those candidates --
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>> i'm not mitt romney, i don't have -- i got $10. but look, truth is, we don't have a nominee in the democratic party. >> yes, you do. >> no, we don't. you know what, he has a chance. >> we're having a different type of debate and bernie sanders -- >> good, because that's good, that improves democracy and strengthens our debate within our party and gives a strong viable candidate when our process is over. >> let's talk about -- >> i believe one of the three candidates will welcome the 45th president of the united states. >> let's talk about the other candidates, it is cruz, not ben carson now donald trump's chief rival in iowa. there was an important poll that came out and shows that ted cruz is really, look at him, there he is at 23%, close to donald trump, splitting donald trump and ben carson where we've seen those two men align there.
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do you think it's the -- for carson and he's said this, he thinks it's the terrorism issue making voters say maybe not, maybe he's not the guy and doesn't have the experience. >> in i think there's a lot of volatility that will exist both in new hampshire and iowa. you're going to see people go up and down. that's historically been the case. we'll have more volatility between now and when iowa goes to the caucuses february 2nd and new hampshire goes to their primary february 9th. tlds going to be more volatility. that's always been the case. always expected to be the case this cycle. >> what do you think about the terrorism issue and how this is affecting the polls? >> it seems like it's really shaking it up. >> it is, any time foreign policy is front and center, republicans and most of the country thinks republicans are better able to handle issues like terrorism and foreign policy issues. so that's i guess a good thing for our side. but for folks like ben carson who have zero experience with any of this and i'm sorry he can
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take as many field trips abroad as he wants, he's not going to get the requisite experience that he needs. this is clearly turning some voters who previously liked him off and on to someone like ted cruz. >> with ted cruz' rise, i've heard democrats in the campaign worried about marco rubio, not as worried about ted cruz. would you like -- >> i haven't talked to the clinton campaign who they are afraid of. >> i have. >> but ted cruz, ted cruz is that slow candidate building strong support and strength and he has supported evangelicals and he's the guy organizing in the deep south right now. ted cruz is clearly on to something. >> thanks to all of you and thanks for spending your sunday with us. go to cnn.com/sotu for extras from the show. i'm brianna keilar in washington. fareed zakaria starts next
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, the moved some new cars. hauled a bunch of steel. kept the supermarket shelves stocked. made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. what's up for the next shift? ah, nothing much. just keeping the lights on. (laugh) nice. doing the big things that move an economy. see you tomorrow, mac. see you tomorrow, sam. just another day at norfolk southern.
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